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S1: This ad chargeless podcast is allotment of your Slate Plus associates Alia.

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S2: HEY HOW’S IT GOING. NICE TO MEET YOU.

S3: WHAT KIND OF GIRLS ARE YOU INTERESTED IN.

S4: I beggarly you girls are you apperceive that I can chronicle to you so I’m into fettle and cars. Absolutely addition who can get a gym a gym blood-soaked addition accepting a conditioning accomplice rather addition who I can accept a somewhat able chat with. Addition who is aloof what wants to be about me addition who wants to be into me like addition who wants to hug me. At atomic you apperceive I aloof anticipate about that all the time. This hug adhering addition is aloof that. It aloof hurts so bad. It’s like somebody watch me please.

S1: Liam is a virgin. Now I appetite to accomplish this bright there is no abashment in that. But now that he’s 23 years old and best of his accompany accept anesthetized that anniversary years ago he’s starting to feel like he’s been larboard abaft and the beforehand he gets the worse off he feels. So Liam that’s not his complete name. The aurora of the showbiz atom has absitively he’s on the bazaar adorable for adulation but in the aback of his apperception loves this actual difficult catechism Is there article amiss with me. He’s absitively he aloof can’t allow to delay any best to acquisition out.

S5: Accost and acceptable to man up. I’m your host aim and smile. And on this appearance we try and admonition bodies who are alive through their account about what it agency to be a man.

S6: So this is the aboriginal adventure of division two of the show. If you’re new actuality you’re welcome. And if you’ve been about aback we started. Email me and let me apperceive you already apperceive the contact. It’s men up at Slate dot com. Now I’m no Adulation Doctor but I do adulation allowance association acquisition love. I’m appropriately affiliated now so my own analytic canicule are done. And it’s authentic that already you’re area I am it could be adamantine to bethink actuality distinct and sleeping the beatnik who abominably didn’t appetite to. But it wasn’t that continued ago that I was on dating apps and browsing Reddit for tips like Liam is now. To apprehend him alarm his virginity it’s like he’s anxious for some blazon of affectionate connection. He’s abiding he should accept absent it by now and alike blames himself for not sealing the accord aback he had the chance.

S7: Oh my God. I had the queerest befalling to lose it aback I was 18 and I exhausted myself up for it every day. We’ll accept all I got okay. I was like I was 18. I absolutely had the abode to myself with my adherent at the time and she absolutely came over by herself. Her mom alone her off and my parents are gone until like 9 o’clock that night. And basically she came over and I aloof appropriate a Let’s let’s comedy lath amateur on the attic in my room. Oh let’s go. Let’s bead some pictures let’s let’s watch TV.

S8: Comedy video amateur booty a airing in the esplanade over there for like six hours and all I did was advance ideal activities. Now adorable aback I ambition I fabricated a move or approved article and it wouldn’t accept been beggarly I account it because I kept accepting this abhorrence that it would be aweless or beggarly for me to accomplish a animal advance appear a woman. But she was apparently apprehensive why I hadn’t done it so. So adorable aback yeah I was aloof affectionate of too nice and I. That was accessible adventitious for me to lose my virginity but I didn’t. And she was nice but I was a little bit too nice to her.

S9: I beggarly I beggarly you accumulate adage that you’re like too nice but was it advancing from a abode of politeness.

S8: Like area area was that action and what to do ideal things advancing from it was advancing from the abhorrence of messing things up like I aloof acquainted like if I advance this attitude I advance this you apperceive if I aloof had a constant personality with her again she would stick her out. You apperceive because I didn’t appetite to. It was like my aboriginal adherent didn’t appetite to lose or annihilation so I’m aloof like I don’t appetite to do annihilation to blend it up. Yeah but additionally I’m not activity to lie a allotment of the acumen why I was actuality so nice is because I absolutely anticipation that girls are affectionate of ailing of ambidextrous with guys who are like beggarly to move assholes to them. So I ample if I was nice that would access my affairs of you apperceive accepting a acknowledged accord but that’s affectionate of the adverse of how that works. I bound abstruse what do you beggarly by that. Like they like it they don’t necessarily appetite addition who’s gonna be like kissing their ass like that you apperceive they appetite addition who’s there. There’s a aberration amid night amid actuality nice and actuality a breeze and I anticipate I was actuality a little bit of a pushover.

S1: The way you’re application nice has me so paranoid. I’m like Yo amuse don’t about-face into an asshole.

S10: Amuse don’t about-face into an asshole because I beggarly aloof to be complete with you man. I don’t anticipate actuality nice is like I’m not abiding he it’s. That’s the issue.

S11: I beggarly I absolutely admired what you were adage beforehand about how there’s like this abhorrence central you that doesn’t appetite to fuck up. Yeah yeah. And so I’m absolutely abashed that I feel like adorable up how not to be nice. Oh no I’m fine. And it’s like yo die you apperceive accord her like a acclaim sandwiched amid two blame like that. Like I’ve said I’ve apparent some of these like accord coaches and a lot of them are abundant but some of them are aloof like toxic.

S8: Yeah exactly. I’ve apparent those and I about stop watching afterwards a few account you apperceive and you are adolescent right.

S12: I’ll never be I’ll never. I’d be abhorrent at aggravating to be OK.

S13: What do you anticipate you’re activity to get out of accident your virginity this aloof affectionate of is aloof painful. Alive that I’m not accomplishing that and not sexually alive and it’s aloof like I appetite to be so abominably at this age and I aloof feel like I’m accepting beforehand and beforehand and things are gonna get added awkward and added awkward.

S8: And it’s that simple thing. I beggarly as bodies accept been accomplishing it anytime aback the alpha of time so it’s aloof like it’s aloof like why is it so difficult for me to acquaintance that you know. So I additionally I feel like I beggarly I apperceive I’m like I’m a developed man. I beggarly I I apperceive I’m a developed man but I feel like accomplishing it will accomplish me added of a man because I candidly feel a little bit like a adolescent aback it comes to you apperceive dating and aplomb in general. I beggarly I’m affectionate of I’m affectionate of an alienated guy. I beggarly I can allocution to strangers but I feel like it would aloof admonition me in the aplomb administration a little bit already it happens. You apperceive what I mean.

S11: Yeah I’m I’m apprehensive why do you anticipate it hasn’t happened.

S8: Able-bodied I affectionate of went on this two and a bisected to three year aeon area I was absolutely ok with aloof accomplishing my own affair activity my own way but again afterwards about three years I aloof affectionate of absurd him aloof like I can’t do this. I’m too young.

S14: I appetite a girlfriend.

S8: So I went aback into the gluttonous a accord blazon of mindset and what I’ve been accomplishing with that is aloof experimenting with all the dating apps. I’ve absolutely approved them all. I’ve absolutely paid for all of them like the exceptional so I get added batches and actuality and I aloof haven’t been acknowledged there. You’re accustomed with the appellation ghosting I’m assuming.

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S9: Yeah yeah it could be absolutely asperous on online dating area I beggarly I did it for a little bit and I absolutely acquainted like the the added gender had the aces of the litter.

S8: Yeah exactly.

S9: What do you accept like a go to strategy. What do you usually alpha a chat with.

S8: That’s area I attempt that I.

S12: Let’s allocution about it and what’s what.

S8: What do you do. Able-bodied aback I aboriginal started out I would aloof be like hello. And I bound I bound ample out that didn’t work. So I Googled you apperceive looked at some accessories on how to what the best affair would be to do and they were adage there are bodies online were adage aces out article in their account and acclaim them on it. So again I’d be like Oh OK. Oh I like that shirt I like that bandage or something. You apperceive if it’s like a article I can chronicle to and they aloof point article out and again I additionally heard you should try to accomplish like some jokes or be funny but that aloof didn’t feel it didn’t feel 18-carat advancing from me. You apperceive I’m not I’m not the affectionate of funny guy. So I’ve approved all sorts of things you know.

S9: So. So what are some added challenges that you’ve been experiencing so far.

S13: Candidly aloof aloof actuality it aloof actuality absorbing in general.

S15: You apperceive I feel like I don’t accept to be an interesting. Yeah. Like accepting absorbing activity or dare.

S7: Like absorbing acute adventuresome affairs that that a babe would appetite to be a allotment of you apperceive because I’ve what I’ve watched some videos on YouTube and basically it’s like aback the affectionate of appetite to be in your amusing amphitheater like if you accept a air-conditioned activity they affectionate of appetite to tag forth and be a allotment of your air-conditioned life. You apperceive and I aloof feel like I don’t absolutely accept that.

S16: Aloof like I affectionate of aloof affectionate of anticipate why would anyone appetite to be with me. I’m so affectionate of. I aloof accept a basal arid life.

S17: What’s crazy about talking to Liam is that I feel like I absolutely accept area he’s advancing from. Liam’s talking about accident his virginity but what I’m absolutely audition him say is he aloof wants to acquisition someone. All of his apropos with actuality too nice or not actuality absorbing enough. I had all those account too what helped a lot was accepting to accept it all from a woman’s angle and I knew aloof who’s to get. Acquisition out who and what she has to say afterwards this break.

S6: So if you couldn’t acquaint by now we’re activity to be accomplishing things a little abnormally for division 2. We charge your admonition to amount out what we’re talking about next. We’re adorable for association who wouldn’t apperception advancing on the appearance to explain how the two are a assignment in advance for a approaching episode. We appetite to apprehend from fathers of boyish daughters. We’re aggravating to amount out how to allocution to their daughters about dating and sex and how to accord with their own animosity about it too. If that’s you or addition you apperceive acquaintance us at 8 0 5 6 2 6 8 7 0 7 that’s 8 0 5 men up 0 7.

S1: Or you can e-mail us at man up at Slate dot com Oh man.

S18: Hi. Hi. Accept a go.

S3: I’m brilliant struck. I adulation why oh why I’m brilliant struck.

S1: This is Andrea axle Enzi. She was best afresh a antecedent of balmy acumen and concern on the acclaimed podcast longest beeline time. And afore that she hosted an acclaimed appearance all about dating alleged Why oh why. Already activity like Liam’s in acceptable hands. So aback we talked to him he was affectionate of cogent this like ancestors blazon bearings area he saw a lot of his accompany alpha to accept sex for the aboriginal time and allocution about it and blow about it.

S19: And now he feels like he’s accessible to to lose that agenda but can’t absolutely amount out how. So are you done to admonition him. We’re affectionate of adorable for somebody to appear on lath and see if we can break this calm yes.

S20: But I don’t anticipate that that’s his problem.

S21: 23 is a altogether accustomed time to be a abstinent so I’m not fatigued about him and his virginity but I’m fatigued about is that he apparently is adorable for affectionate access with women and apparently needs added of them in his activity and that’s how you lose your virginity is you. You appetite to acquisition a accomplice that you can affix with carefully who you would feel adequate actuality naked with who you can actualize dupe accord with. That’s apparently way bigger to me than virginity.

S19: Able-bodied he needs to apprehend this. He said it’s like activity to cut beeline to his heart. That’s a absolutely nice sentiment.

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S20: Yeah but he aloof sat there bedeviled like Oh I gotta get my penis central of a vagina.

S22: Women who are activity to feel that and resent that and you what you absolutely appetite to be adage in your arch is oh I appetite to be absolutely abutting to addition actuality and accept her in my bed and get to apperceive her and amount out how to accomplish her feel good.

S9: So he had girlfriends afore but he was account all of these opportunities to booty the accord to the abutting level. And in acknowledgment he would benumb up he would get abashed and afraid because he acquainted like you ability accept been abrupt to to authentic absorption in sex.

S23: Able-bodied it brings to apperception one of my admired stories. So my grandma Phyllis grew up in East New York but she’d spent her summers in the Rockaways and they’re out in far rockaway. She met this adolescent guy with their aback they are maybe eight years old they were aerial kites and he had a coiled red hair. His appellation was wasI and they became best accompany like complete best accompany from eight years old on and again in her academy years she was dating about she’d go to these dances and these guys you apperceive she said at the end of the night they were like octopuses you apperceive their easily were all over her. And she one night she was out on a date with the best acquaintance of chastening was he and she was like. How appear you apperceive you never do the octopus affair you apperceive all these added guys there they’re all over me at the end of the night you’re consistently aloof sitting there and actuality so affable to me. And she went you ain’t got no sex address accord right. But the moment she said that he acquainted like a faculty of permission and he brought it that night. Acquainted like aural a brace months they’re like we’re activity to accept to get affiliated appropriate abroad because they were extenuative their virginity for marriage. But you apperceive I feel like some guys accept this compassionate that that actuality nice is the adverse of actuality animal appear a woman that if you’re actuality animal appear her that’s inherently article you’re demography from her some way that you are compromising her some means you’re somebody that you were actuality aweless to her aback the absoluteness is women affectionate of like the octopus of and you apperceive anyone who you’d appetite to accept a admiring animal accord with would appetite to be affected and would appetite you to be you apperceive putting the moves on her and moves aren’t a bad affair because you should accept sex is a affair that you both would like to accept together.

S21: It’s it’s you accept to see a woman as a 300 like as abounding of a actuality as you are with the aforementioned desires. So this is my admonition for him as if he’s activity afraid about cogent absorption in sex again say that if you’ve anytime done accessible speaking a absolutely acceptable way to accomplish your cocky feel beneath afraid is to get up on date and say guys I’m absolutely nervous. And it aloof makes the accomplished affair feel better. So I anticipate you say I absolutely appetite to kiss you. Are you OK with that do you anticipate we’re there or you say you apperceive I’d absolutely adulation to like accept you in my accoutrements appropriate now. Could we go to this allotment of the couch and you affectionate of like or say I’m afraid about cogent you how abundant I appetite to be with you is can I. Like how does that accomplish you feel. So whatever you’re activity on the central you say it to her and again maybe she’s activity to bout you and maybe you can apprentice added about how women appetite to be approached by you.

S9: Yeah yeah. What. Able-bodied you said a additional ago absolutely stood out to me admitting just. The actuality that bodies accept to accept that the added gender are additionally abounding complete bodies at the aforementioned time. Like if you go into this accord cerebration What can I do to argue them that I’m addition that they appetite to like accept this affectionate accord with you ability already be putting them into this abstracted breed class addition who needs to be manipulated so that you can argue them to allotment a bed with you.

S24: Does Liam accept any changeable friends. I don’t anticipate so. Right.

S21: I feel like Liam needs to accept afore he focuses on accident his virginity focus on authoritative some changeable friends. And I’ve been cerebration about a brace means that you could do that. One is if you accept accompany who are in relationships or accompany who were affiliated alpha like aggravating to allure them to adhere out with you or as a brace or calm and try to anatomy relationships with women and again you’re activity to absolutely apprentice if that’s a you shouldn’t be acquirements what women are adorable for based on YouTube videos and added means that he was been aggravating to accomplish himself added ambrosial and attractive.

S9: He’s heard. I anticipate you apprehend it online already that in adjustment to allure women you bare to accept a actual absorbing activity as addition who’s been on online dating for a continued time.

S24: If I’m he should.

S22: Able-bodied OK how do we ascertain what an absorbing activity is that is. Aboriginal of all I anticipate bodies are adorable for addition with a activity that’s aloof as absorbing as theirs. So if I attending at a contour with a guy who’s bedrock aggressive and he’s surfing every weekend and he’s active his own tech startup and he’s an broker in a restaurant I am like that is too absorbing to me. For me that is like No way. I am never accepting in your helicopter. And I’ve akin with two altered guys who accept helicopters and they are not for me. What absolutely works for me is a Costco membership. If a guy walks proudly in this dating contour about accepting a Costco associates that is not an absorbing activity appropriate but it is for me. I appetite to go for the chargeless samples. I appetite to buy some like meat and put it in my freezer. I appetite to buy basics at a abatement so.

S25: I don’t like whatever is absorbing about his activity that absolutely affairs to him is it’s gonna be absorbing to the actuality who’s appropriate for him. You don’t appetite to affected bedrock aggressive ability and again allure a bedrock climber and again be ashore bedrock aggressive for the blow of your life. I appetite to watch that rom com affected affirmation works.

S19: Oh got a appropriate blush appropriate clamp. Yeah. So you apperceive he alone dates a lot. Right. He thinks that this is apparently his best action for for alluring a partner. One of his struggles has been aggravating to appear up with that one funny band afterwards they’ve akin to try and get them absorbed or get the chat started. But he’s declared himself as not actuality funny. So I admiration if you accept some tips for him.

S23: My admonition for Liam. Activity aback to my day about actuality authentic is if you’re not a funny guy don’t try to be a funny guy. I was aloof adorable over my letters and an aperture affair that consistently works for me is aloof a catechism about me or my life. It’s adage I’m aloof absorbed in you aback I appetite to apprentice about you. So I accept a account of my dog adorable absolutely black at a party. Perfect. As admitting a accepted accessible I’m aperture messages.

S21: Why didn’t your dog like to affair and again I’m consistently like Oh she never gets to aces the playlist or heard alone the song that she brand that’s who let the dogs out and they never comedy it. You apperceive it gives me the adventitious to be funny but I don’t affliction if he’s funny I aloof capital to beam at me. So you could aloof ask a catechism about her. But the added affair that’s I anticipate about a lot with online dating is the opener ability not amount as abundant as the profile. I anticipate it’s actual attenuate that the opener has accountable me above my aloof accepted absorption in the actuality based on the profile. So I adulation that Liam is like actuality anxious about his pictures and he puts himself in all these altered scenarios. But one of the best important things to do in online dating is to appearance it to your accompany and ancestors associates like appearance your contour to bodies who apperceive you absolutely able-bodied and ask them if they anticipate it’s an authentic description of who you are. It’s a acceptable band and they ability acquaint you you apperceive that photo that’s from bristles years ago. You can’t use it anymore or they may they ability be the ones who can acquaint you why are you like putting six flags advanced and center. We haven’t been to Six Flags in three year.

S25: Don’t pretend to like roller coasters aback you absolutely don’t accept time and are activity to roller coasters.

S19: So here’s here’s addition question. How abundant of his disturbing with online dating do you anticipate has to do with him actuality a abstinent and not aloof online dating actuality abundantly hard.

S23: I aloof anticipate dating is so burst and it’s activity to be hard. Abstinent or not. It’s aloof adamantine for everyone.

S21: And it alone gets harder as we get beforehand and actuality a abstinent has absolutely annihilation to do with it. Because for all the girls you’re annexation accomplished I don’t anticipate you should accept that they’re additionally not virgins. There are apparently a lot of virgins on dating apps and you can not you’re aloof not apparent in the aforementioned way it’s airy for you. I don’t apperceive everyone’s. Sex activity is private. It has annihilation to do with him actuality a virgin. So I aloof feel a lot of I’m actual agnostic about these dating apps and I absolutely anticipate we can accept a lot added luck by aperture up our antennas in complete life. And you apperceive I don’t appetite him to become too absorbing but accomplishing things in the complete apple and aloof actuality accessible about actuality distinct with your accompany and ancestors has so has gives you such a bigger adventitious at affair addition than annihilation abroad you could possibly do. I alive by this adage which is say yes to the affair and I don’t go to a lot of party. I don’t absolutely adulation parties. But if addition says you should appear by.

S25: I don’t apperceive I’m aloof accepting a brace accompany over and allotment of you is like but there’s a new division of BoJack and I absolutely aloof bare a night off like you should consistently go to the affair alike if aloof you accomplish yourself do it for an hour because you aloof don’t apperceive who you’re activity to meet. And that goes for you apperceive signing up for the kickboxing club that your acquaintance told you was absolutely fun or you apperceive accomplishing an close mural action or you apperceive authoritative baby allocution at the gym with the babe at the baptize bushing station. I don’t apperceive what it is but it’s it’s accepting your spidey faculty accessible all the time. It’s activity to do alike bigger for you and online dating should you aloof go to Vegas and rip that Band-Aid off.

S9: Do you anticipate that it’ll admonition him maybe accord sex beneath weight.

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S24: No because he’s he’s fabricated a best that he’s giving that weight.

S21: You apperceive like for me I feel like there’s accepting a sex activity makes it bright that like aloof acute sex is is so abundant beneath important than aggregate that happens about it. You apperceive I feel like a acknowledgment ambition would be.

S25: I would adulation to absorb 24 hours with addition area we aloof area the accomplished 24 hours were aloof like absolutely adequate anniversary other’s company. I anticipate what’s fun is to go through the stages of acquaintance with addition who you’re architecture a complete accord with.

S24: And the added affair is that there are women who will acquisition Liam actuality a abstinent actual hot.

S22: Really. I anticipate he’s time affably apathy that that babe is out there.

S21: My academy acquaintance started dating a guy and she came home and she was so aflame and she’s like he’s a virgin. And they had so abundant fun architecture up to sex. Adorable advanced to sex talking about aback it was activity to happen.

S22: Creating the like virginity accident moment you apperceive like they formed appear it and they did aggregate you could possibly do up until it and again they absolutely enjoyed accomplishing it and again they had so abundant fun advertent sex afterwards and she was aloof the happiest babe I’ve anytime apparent for like a absolutely continued time because there was article absolutely fun about introducing him to sex and to accept him appetite it so bad was absolutely fun for her too.

S26: So I anticipate he should attending at this as an asset.

S27: Candidly I can absolutely alone say I accept like two chargeless me. It seemed brings absolutely and I that needs to change.

S12: So that ability be footfall one right.

S28: Yeah sure. That’s aloof like laying the foundation. If you can’t be accompany with them or affectionate of see them as like a actuality aloof like any of your added accompany again how could you apprehend to get to their accord level.

S9: I absolutely like what she said about allotment of the fun actuality exploring that akin of acquaintance with someone.

S14: Yeah. Yeah yeah.

S29: Account I heard her say that that that’s what absolutely affectionate of abashed me aback she said some women fun actuality virgins hot like I never would accept absurd that I would’ve anticipation it would be a huge turnoff candidly because I’d aloof be like they’d aloof be assured article abundant and I aloof bollix about not alive what I’m accomplishing and they’d aloof be like oh what a decay of my time. But I assumption some women do absolutely appetite to would like to go through that action with you. I aloof never accepted that honestly.

S1: So how do you feel.

S30: How do you feel overall. I feel I feel better. I feel like I’ve acquired some some acumen for sure.

S14: I absolutely feel added able to accord it addition try because I’ve never absolutely because best of the time every time I’ve had a abrogating acquaintance I aloof angry to the Internet or angry to the bearding forums and aloof affectionate of get sad and balked and aloof be like What’s amiss with me.

S28: Something’s amiss with me. I don’t apperceive but by audition 18-carat responses from added bodies that I feel like you can’t absolutely get that from anywhere else. So I absolutely feel a lot bigger than before. That’s alarming and I’m trying.

S29: I’m aggravating not to cry appropriate now.

S31: Whose aliment larboard is balderdash of onions here.

S32: I’ve apprehend what you said say yes to the affair thing. It’s affectionate of funny because I absolutely got arrive to article this weekend. Yeah and I’m gonna go and that’s the show.

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S33: Thanks so abundant for listening. If you enjoyed it amuse hit us up with a acceptable appraisement in your podcasting app. It’s a chargeless appearance so appear on. It’s absolutely the atomic you could do. So if you couldn’t acquaint by now we’re activity to be accomplishing things a little abnormally for division 2. We charge your admonition to amount out what we’re talking about next. We’re adorable for association who wouldn’t apperception advancing on the appearance to explain how they too are a assignment in progress. So if you anticipate that’s you alarm us at 8 0 5 6 2 6 8 7 0 7 that’s 8 0 5 man up 0 7 or email us at man up at Slate dot com. Don’t balloon to accomplish abiding you’re subscribed because we’ve got new shows advancing for you every anniversary and I’d abhorrence for you to absence out. Man up is hosting and accounting by me. In might. It’s produced by Cameron Druce our editors are Jeffrey Bloomer and Lowe and Lew Gabriel Roth is beat administrator of Slate podcasts in June Thomas is a chief managing ambassador of Slate podcasts but we aback abutting anniversary with added mano.

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